BUNKERS AND PYRAMIDS
French architect Ludwig Godefroy bridges the gap between bunkers and pyramids after serendipitously traveling to Mexico. His boundaries of inside and outside dissolve in a symbiotic relationship with concrete, stone, and wood. This incredible architect doesn't just design structures; he crafts emotional experiences, ensuring each creation contains a piece of him. Choosing projects that resonate with his soul rather than his wallet.
The interview is not just a window into Ludwig's great works, but a trip into his world [...]
KYLE MCKENZIE (KM): LUDWIG, YOUR ARCHITECTURAL WORK, ESPECIALLY THE CUBE IN THE FOREST, IS FASCINATING. CAN YOU SHARE MORE ABOUT YOUR STYLE AND INSPIRATIONS?
LUDWIG GODEFROY (LG): My story as an architect has to do a little bit with my story because I arrived in Mexico 17 years ago to live in Mexico City, but I studied architecture in Paris, and I'm originally from France, from Normandy on the coast of the Atlantic coast. I come from a small village and there were a lot of bunkers all around, from the Second World War. So basically when I was a kid I used to play in those bunkers and now they are big ruins in front of the ocean. And when I arrived in Mexico, I started to discover the pyramids and at some point I made sort of a bridge between the Pyramids and bunkers.
And it's really something that belongs to me because, Mexican people would never create such a bridge because they don't really know bunkers. But for me, when I see a pyramid, it's a bit the same. It's like a ruin. It looks abandoned with this very bucolic atmosphere around because it had the meaning of the original building is lost a little bit like the bunkers.
It's a big block of stone. Nature and trees are growing on top of pyramids, taking back their rights. And the materiality of this architecture is out of stone, the other one is out of concrete. And so I'm like, wow, it's kind of the same. And so this is the moment when I started to work between pre-Hispanic architecture and brutalist architecture.
And the history of brutalist architecture, it is very important to me because I'm a big fan of Le Corbusier. All the work he did in India, Chandigarh, and all the work he did after the Second World War, basically, which is like raw architecture made out of raw concrete.
I aim to create spaces that blend the indoors and outdoors, erasing the boundaries and making the garden and architecture one unified space. This approach defines my work, responding to the Mexican reality – making a garden with a house in it, rather than a house with a garden.
Instead of doing a house with its garden, I want to do a garden with its house. And I'm trying to reverse the process of doing architecture and structuring also the void as part of the architecture. And this way we’re sort of famishing also the limit between in and out.
KM: WERE YOU ALREADY PRACTICING AS AN ARCHITECT WHEN YOU ARRIVED IN MEXICO, OR WERE YOU STILL IN SCHOOL? I'M TRYING TO GET A CLEAR PICTURE OF THIS PERIOD IN YOUR LIFE. COULD YOU ELABORATE ON THAT TIME?
LG: Well, to be honest with you, it's like what's happening in everybody's life. Life is sort of a big accident.You're always planning something. And so this was the beginning when you start working on an idea... But at the end of the story, you will always redefine what you were supposed to do.
And then the goal you're trying to reach, is never the final result that you're reaching. And so in this way you sort of re-writing the story. Meanwhile, you're also doing it. So it's a little bit like this for me.
In 2007, my initial idea, was to come to Mexico because I wanted to live there for the next two years of my life.
I fell in love with the country, the culture, the people, the food. And so I started to feel really good in Mexico. And so my idea originally was to arrive in Mexico to learn Spanish and then probably go toward the south to Brazil or to Argentina, my idea was to discover a little bit more of Latin America. And 17 years later, I'm still in Mexico...
"ɪ ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ᴡʜʏ ɪ ᴀʀʀɪᴠᴇᴅ ɪɴ ᴍᴇxɪᴄᴏ, ʙᴜᴛ ɪ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ᴡʜʏ ɪ ɴᴇᴠᴇʀ ʟᴇꜰᴛ"
When I embarked on designing my first project with my ex partner for a club, I was with an office in Mexico City. The project was for the M.N Roy Club. I thought, "Wow, I should create something that reinterprets pre-Hispanic architecture." As I mentioned earlier, Mexican people often avoid this approach due to fears that the project might end up being somewhat kitsch, resembling a Las Vegas-style effect.
KM: IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE AN EMOTION THAT MOST ALIGNS WITH YOUR ARCHITECTURAL STYLE, WHAT WOULD IT BE, AND HOW DO YOU TRANSLATE THIS EMOTION?
LG: When you're in front of a pyramid, you experience something emotional, something very monumental—a huge piece of architecture before you. You encounter silence. You observe a certain light coming from above. And it's essentially all of this that intrigues me. This is always the case for me, and it relates to your first question about what, for me, is the most important emotion in architecture.
I think the power of architecture is exactly this. Essentially, when you were a kid and you used to go to your uncle's house, for example, upon arriving at the house, you could feel something special. And you can still remember that house and the feeling you had when you arrived there. As a small kid, your perceptions were different. If you were to see the house again tomorrow, you might say, "Oh, I imagined it bigger, more impressive." But that's because it was awakening emotions inside of you, inside the kid you were at the time.
I'm trying to do this all the time with my architecture to wake up emotion.
KM: WHAT WAS THE FEELING YOU WERE LEFT WITH AFTER EXPERIENCING THE PYRAMIDS FOR THE FIRST TIME?
LG: For me it would be the contemplation. The contemplation is exactly the moment when you stop to dig inside of yourself. Like inside of Japanese architecture. If you go to a Zen temple, they just have a sliding window and door opening to a garden. The idea is that you connect yourself with the garden in front of you.
it's always something I'm trying to do in architecture that you can see it. And you can have some sort of frame in front of you and trying to connect yourself with the surrounding and connect yourself with the building. And the building itself is connected with the nature.
KM: BEAUTIFULLY SAID. WHEN I WENT TO JAPAN, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME I HAD AN EMOTIONAL CONNECTION TO ARCHITECTURE
LG: Definitely.
KM: I TOOK A PAUSE TO LOOK AT SOMETHING AND THAT THAT EXPERIENCE FOR ME WAS SILENCE. I WAS IN AWE JUST BY OBSERVING. AND SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THE EMOTIONS.
LG: For me, it's a moment of respect. There's something in front of you that you cannot really describe with words. It's this beautiful moment when you're beyond words, unable to refer to what you know. This idea that there's no need for words, and it's like you just let go.
I remember one day leaving Mexico City very early, around six in the morning. I wanted to be the first to enter the archaeological site, which I did. We were maybe ten people at the entrance gate. I paid my ticket and was running toward the Sun Pyramid.
I think now you can't go on top anymore, but at the time, you could. My goal was to arrive first on top of the pyramid. I remember there was some smog above the fields, as the morning was still cold and the sun was rising. It was beautiful.
I had ten minutes alone on top of the Sun Pyramid. Those ten minutes were everything because I could connect with this indescribable architecture.
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It's similar to what I feel when connecting myself to pyramids. This idea is also to make architecture timeless. I'm not trying to follow trends but create architecture that remains relevant in ten years and beyond. I always look for timeless architecture.
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Illustrations + Animation
By a talented friend Tanner Dane
"We all age, and so should architecture"
LG: I use durable materials like concrete, stone, and wood in massive sections. These materials age well and get covered by the pattern of time, which becomes part of the materiality that I plan for the future of a house or hotel.
KM: LUDWIG, HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO COMPROMISE FOR THE CLIENT?
LG: I don't really compromise. Initially, I took any project, but over time, I realized good projects often come from good clients. So, I became selective, keeping my office small, focusing on few projects yearly. This allows me to work freely, maintaining control over my creations, and prevents the pressure of a large practice. I mirror Peter Zumthor's romantic idea of an architect working peacefully, enjoying a manageable workload, and the freedom of working remotely.
KM: YOUR APPROACH OF BEING SELECTIVE WITH CLIENTS AND PROJECTS IS ENLIGHTENING. IT'S ABOUT FINDING THE RIGHT CLIENT.
LG: Yes, the client is key. A good client is essential for a successful project. Without that, even brilliance can't save the project.
KM: HOW DID YOU PIVOT AND/OR MAKE THE SHIFT? FROM SAYING YES ALL THE TIME...TO NO. WHAT WAS THAT JOURNEY LIKE?
LG: I worked with renowned architects worldwide, including Rem Koolhaas at OMA. Despite learning a lot, I realized I didn't want to work for someone else. Moving to Mexico was a turning point. Initially, I partnered with an antique dealer, a unique entry into architecture.
Our first major opportunity was Casa Zicatela, where I could finally build a concrete house, aligning with my vision. This was my first house from scratch - also my last project with my ex partner.
And then from one house, then you get the second one... And so it was a little bit like this, and at some point I had to split with my partner because we could not understand each other anymore because I was becoming more and more radical. I did not want to use certain materials.
I only wanted raw materials. I want to have like those simple massive material I was talking about at the beginning, you know? And if a client was asking me for something I did not want to do it.
So I'm telling him I'm not the one. So you should go with someone else and I'm not saying no. I'm just saying, to be honest, I don't recommend you to work with me because I'm not looking for this. And I would do something different. You would probably be disappointed with what I will show you, because this is the way I'm trying to work all the time.
And the more you get to radical, the more the portfolio that you're creating is starting to make sense, because now what I'm looking for is to work on some sort of a big family. All my projects, they are like a big family. And even if the clients, they are not related, if one project is somewhere and another one is somewhere else. If you if you look at my project, they're all looks as similar and different at the same time. And now, since the very first moment when I started designing, I am always thinking about this family and I am always trying to to write the next page of my personal story. So there is always like something I'm doing with my project. I’m having a double dialog, a double discussion or a way of explaining the project.
The first one would be directly for my client. Because I'm receiving a brief and I'm trying to reconfigure it a little bit. But I'm always responding to this brief and to the desires and needs of my client.
And on the other end there is like my personal research that I'm doing in architecture, for my architecture to make sense. When you start from the first project until the last and the next project, this is something very personal, this is more like based on my personal feelings of architecture, which basically is not the concern of my client, but my client is involved without knowing it.
KM: THAT'S INCREDIBLE, TRULY. THE SKILL IT TAKES TO INFUSE A PIECE OF YOURSELF AND YOUR PHILOSOPHY INTO EVERY PROJECT IS REMARKABLE. DETAILS ABOUT YOUR PARTNERSHIP AND THAT PIVOTAL MOMENT ARE SO INTRIGUING.
I'M PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN THAT MOMENT WHEN YOU DECIDED TO EMBRACE A RADICAL APPROACH AND FOLLOW YOUR TRUTH. WHEN YOU DISCUSSED THIS WITH YOUR PARTNER, WAS IT CHALLENGING TO MAKE THAT DECISION, OR DID IT FEEL NATURAL?
LG: There is this moment when something is not fulfilling you anymore, And it's like when we were talking at the beginning of that emotion, when you talk about creation, you relate yourself with your deep emotion, of what's inside of you. And so at the end, you cannot really try to lie about it or you can, but you won't be happy about it. You won't feel that you're doing your best to try to be who you want to be. And at some point I was basically becoming rude with my ex-partner because I was saying, no, I don't want this. No, no, no. And he was getting mad at me.
I was becoming just like a person frustrating the other one and when you're like this you're like “okay so I should stop this, and tell him I'm not happy about what we're doing. This is not what I'm looking for”. And this is what I did.
The first year I had lost everything. I had a business, I was earning money, he was the one in charge of public relations and he was the one bringing the clients. And I was not so sure about myself that I was good at public relations. And if I never do it, I will never know if I'm good or not.
So basically I had to go for it. Of course, the first year was difficult and I had to start from scratch again. The first 3 to 4 months I was a little bit depressed.
And this is what I did and I think it was good for everybody. And my partner is doing good also and we are just doing whatever we all want to do which is very important.
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KM: THIS RESONATES SO MUCH WITH ME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I'M CURRENTLY NAVIGATING A SIMILAR SITUATION.
IT'S INSPIRING TO HEAR ABOUT THE CHALLENGES YOU FACED AND HOW YOU OVERCAME THEM TO ATTRACT THE CLIENTS YOU WANTED AND TO WORK ON AMAZING PROJECTS, WHILE MAINTAINING A MANAGEABLE WORKLOAD OF JUST 4 TO 5 PROJECTS A YEAR. YOUR PROCESS AND YOUR APPROACH IS TRULY MOVING...
LG: Hopefully when you look at the project that I'm creating. I do understand that it’s not for everybody and that some people won't be happy about my architecture and they would criticize my architecture. And it's fine, you know, because what I hope is that people can look at the project and say, this is something very personal, something very honest inside of the project. And because there is part of me in each project, I'm trying to put a little piece of myself in each of my projects because they are like kids to me.
KM: HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN THAT ARTISTIC INTEGRITY? YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE YOUR PRACTICES, BUT ARE THERE ACTIVITIES OUTSIDE OF WORK THAT KEEP YOU GROUNDED AND HELP MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF YOUR WORK?
LG: Well, it's difficult to say because I'm really spending a lot of time doing architecture and it's part of my life. It's like I wake up in the morning and I go to my computer. So now I have a fusion of everything in my house and in my office. It's everything at the same place.
I did it during the pandemic, I found a house with a garden in Mexico City. So now I can spend more time with my wife and daughter. I can have a break in between during the day to spend time with them.
It's really like part of my rhythm. And to be honest with you, this equilibrium that I was talking between who I am, and what people think about me, it's like I don't belong anymore because if you ask the French people, they would consider me as the Mexican. And if you're in Mexico because of my French accent in Spanish. They would consider me as the French boy, you know. And I'm like, you know, I don't belong in Mexico and I don't belong anymore in France. So I just do whatever I want, because I don't really care what people think about me. And I like this idea that I'm not anymore this or that, and this for me is the idea of being free, being whatever you want.
KM: WHAT ARE SOME OTHER EXPERIENCES YOU HAD THAT GAVE YOU DEEPER LOOK ON LIFE?
LG: At some point I wanted to understand what I'm doing in this world, because this world does not make sense. And what's the goal? We are so useless as such a tiny little piece of dust in the universe. And then I started to discover all the sacred plants. So I went for the mushrooms, I went for the peyote, and iowaska, And finally at the end I went to smoke the toad. And for me it was like okay, I think now I do understand what I want.
And so and at some point when I was smoking, the toad. I could understand what's infinite, and of course I cannot explain what's infinite. But when you open with the ayahuasca, you do see the universe and so I do understand that I'm just nothing.
Meanwhile, I would begin to concentrate. Otherwise, you might think, "Okay, it's fine to end my life tomorrow." However, I believe that's the moment when you can capitalize on something positive, creative, and fulfilling for yourself.
"...ɪ'ᴍ ᴀʟᴡᴀʏꜱ ᴛʀʏɪɴɢ ᴛᴏ ꜱᴛᴀʏ ᴀꜱ ᴄʟᴏꜱᴇ ᴀꜱ ᴘᴏꜱꜱɪʙʟᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴋɪᴅ ɪ ᴜꜱᴇᴅ ᴛᴏ ʙᴇ ᴡʜᴇɴ ɪ ᴡᴀꜱ ʏᴏᴜɴɢᴇʀ."
For me I actually started ayahuasca the moment when I split with my partner. And basically my idea with the ayahuasca was to break my ego because at some point, you start to have the idea that you're doing good and what you're doing is important and you can start to be arrogant.
So I think now what I need is to break my ego because it's good to use the ego to try to motivate yourself, like, "I will do this".
While it's beneficial to use ego as a motivator, saying to yourself, "I will do this," it becomes problematic when it shifts to self-praise. I realized I just wanted to be in my corner, doing what I love. If people appreciate my work, I'm grateful, but I don't want to boast about it. If someone asks about my work, I'll answer their questions, but I prefer not to initiate conversations about it. Now, I'm doing it for myself, not for external validation or to impress others.
When I was younger and afraid of traveling, I used to tell those around me, "I will go there and do this." My fear drove me; I thought if I told people about my plans and didn't follow through, I'd lose credibility. It's like you're only talking, and eventually, you stop pretending. If this approach works, you start to embody the person you've been pretending to be. Pretentiousness is one thing, but failing to meet your own pretensions makes you look ridiculous. When scared, I would pretend to be someone else to a few people. But once you tell people, you can't back out. It was my way of motivating myself to overcome my fears.
And then, of course, on the way you mix this with all your dreams. And dreams are also something that I'm trying to take care of, not because, as you said, know when you're a young kid, you have to like all those dreams. And I'm always trying to stay as close as possible to the kid I used to be when I was younger.
KM: WHAT WAS THE KEY LESSON FROM THAT EXPERIENCE? IF YOU COULD DISTILL IT INTO ONE MAIN TAKEAWAY FOR YOURSELF? I IMAGINE IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH EGO, BUT WHAT WAS THAT SINGULAR MOMENT OR INSIGHT THAT REALLY HIT YOU LIKE A LIGHT BULB, MAKING YOU REALIZE, "OH WOW, I'M DOING THIS. I NEED TO CHANGE AND GROW FROM THIS TO OVERCOME MY EGO"?
LG: It was definitely the end with my partner because, you know, like there is a moment when we have a relationship with someone and this is also like something which is happening all the time in relation with boyfriends and girlfriends. You know, at the beginning everything is charming and everything. And you try to be as pleasing as possible, then try to go for the beauty of the relationship.
And at some point you just want to get the power. You're just becoming like some sort of dictator. And this is the moment you're like, okay, so this is something I need to change.
KM: I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR FAVORITE PROJECT YOU'VE EVER DONE. LIKE, WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE?
LG: It's difficult. So I somehow like them all. But of course there is a few projects because the feeling always the on top of some other project which would be probably Puerto Escondido the hotel in West Escondido with the big circle and there is this house in Merida like the first one that I did which is cool. These are ones I really like also because it's a house that I'm still going to.
I'm very good friends with the owner, so I'm spending a lot of time in this house. I have some very close and intimate relationships with this project.
KM: WHEN PEOPLE ENCOUNTER YOUR WORK, WHETHER THROUGH A THUMBNAIL OR A DEEPER DIVE, THE CONNECTION BETWEEN YOUR PERSONAL STORY AND YOUR EXPERIENCES IS RELATABLE...THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME MAN. LEARNING ABOUT HOW YOU INTUITIVELY INCORPORATE YOUR PHILOSOPHIES INTO CLIENT PROJECTS HAS BEEN DOPE TO HEAR. I'M GRATEFUL FOR YOUR TIME AND ALLOWING ME TO RECORD THIS CONVERSATION FOR MY BLOG.
LG: Well, that was a great conversation. I think we had a good time talking, so thank you very much. And again, when you come to Mexico one day, just tell me, and we have to meet each other and all.
Web: www.ludwiggodefroy.com
Instagram: @ludwiggodefroy
